794: So Close and Yet So Far

Ira Glass

Valerie Kipnis is one of our younger and newer producers here. She's been working on the show for less than a year. And it was other staff members who urged her to come into the studio with me and tell me the story. Because they think it's funny, even if Valerie doesn't.

Ira Glass

Six feet? It's so close, right, but so far. She's by the subway doors. He's at the pole in the middle of the aisle.

Ira Glass

She keeps thinking, he'll get off at any minute. After all, he went to stand by the door, right by her. But he doesn't get off, not at the next station or the next or the next. And at some point she realizes--

Ira Glass

Just so it's clear what we're describing here. Valerie is holding the magazine to her face so the top of the magazine is near her hairline. So she's like a nearly blind monk trying to squint at words in a Bible, or like an extra in an old musical where-- I don't know-- Sky Masterson or Auntie Mame or whoever is going to walk into a subway car. And everybody in the car has a magazine held up to his or her face so that they can pull them down on cue and start singing. The magazine is too close to her eyes to actually read it.

Ira Glass

It's kind of hard to get my head around it that she and I stood next to each other on a train for half an hour and our shoulders were knocking against each other and I didn't notice her and she said nothing and held a magazine to her face like a force field protecting herself and keeping us separate.

Ira Glass

Today on our show, we have other stories of people who are so close, but so far. Act 1 is about two people in one of the closest relationships possible. They're engaged to be married. But they have this distance between them that they cannot make sense of.

Act 2, comedian Tig Notaro has a story of somebody as close as her actual bedside, and also in another way, impossibly far away. From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Stay with us.

Ira Glass

Act 1, Love and Other Exports. How much can you trust whether somebody who you think is close to you really is close to you? Saidu Tejan-Thomas Jr. has been thinking about that question since visiting with some of his childhood friends. Saidu was born in Sierra Leone, but moved to the States when he was little. His story starts in Freetown during a recent trip home. Heads up, this story acknowledges the existence of sex.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

When I left Sierra Leone at eight years old, I left behind a small group of friends I did everything with. As kids, we would run around the city and play soccer at the beach. That's how we bonded. Now that we're grown when I go back, we go to the gym. It's how we pick up where we left off.

[GRUNTING]

My friends have this one particular gym they like. It's called Sonics.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Sonics sits at the end of a dirt road in Freetown, a small space in a quaint green and yellow building. It has no air conditioning and relentless heat. So the guys are usually drenched in sweat like oiled-up extras in '90s R&B videos. I come here almost every time I'm in Salone.

But then the last time we went, I discovered that for many of the guys here, all their crunches and squats had a much deeper purpose than looking good. The gym, my friends told me, possesses a special luck for young Sierra Leonean men who want to move to America or Europe.

They believe that if you use the weights here to sculpt your body, make it beautiful enough, you will find a wife overseas, and that Sonics has a track record to prove it. A member named Savage told me about how foolproof this method has been for previous members. He's speaking in Krio. I'll paraphrase after.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

We've never had a Sonics member who dates someone visiting from overseas who doesn't end up marrying them.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Another member of Sonics, this guy with perfectly sculpted arms called Sultan, jumped in to name their legends, the guys they've heard found wives overseas, success stories that get passed around at the gym.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

There was a driver who chauffeured a Black American woman around Freetown while she was visiting, always making sure to look presentable doing it. He made a good impression. They got married. And he just went to America a few months ago.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

There was the handsome photographer who got a random phone call from a Sierra Leonean woman living in London. It was a wrong number but he charmed his way into a conversation, sent her some photos of his biceps, and they got married last year. He's now living with her in London.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

I respected the hustle. But their plans somehow didn't sit right with me. The idea of guys I grew up with, men in my country using their bodies to get overseas, it made me uncomfortable. But then I sat down with a few of the guys and we started to talk. And I realized beneath the surface, beyond all the muscles, confidence, and bravado, all of these men were carrying around a broken heart, which brings me to the guy I wanted to talk to the most, my friend Mark.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Mark and I grew up in the same neighborhood. But we didn't really get to know each other until we were grown. He's a good-looking guy who's easy to talk to. Not the greatest singer, but we were hanging out one day and he decided to sing me his favorite love song.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Mario's "How Do I Breathe," one of my favorite songs, is a song about a guy trying to piece together his emotional life after losing the woman he loves. It's basically Mark's story. It's why he's the one of my friends who believes most fervently that finding love overseas is the way to go. The girl he's singing about is someone he grew up with. Mark says she was the smartest kid in their fifth grade class. But she was always approachable. And he liked that. He liked that they could joke together.

After lessons, they would go to the beach and talk for hours, getting to know each other. He says she was the first person who taught him how to love. Like this one day, he walked home from prayers and as soon as he opened the door, he saw her standing there with all his best friends from school, his family, everyone, singing.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

She'd planned this elaborate surprise party for his 14th birthday, complete with all his favorite food and all the people he loved. And on top of all that, she gave him a kiss.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Neither of them came from money, far from it. But Mark was growing up with a single parent. When his mother couldn't afford to care for him, he lived with his grandpa.

But then his grandpa died. Then his mother died. And Mark became an orphan. He says his relationship with this woman was one of the few things in his life that felt stable. With her, he could dream. He could escape into one of their long talks about how sweet their lives would be in the future.

I reached out to her to get her side of this, but she didn't want to be involved with my story and she wouldn't confirm anything Mark said. The way Mark tells it though, they had decided-- she would work in the energy industry. He would become a lawyer.

They wanted three to four kids, a house in Salone. Maybe they'd travel sometimes. I love the way he describes the love he had for her.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

She was so real to me.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

She didn't care if I had money or didn't have money. She didn't care how I looked. It's love she had for me.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

After they graduated high school, she got a scholarship to attend university abroad. Mark says she tried to put in a good word for him to get the same scholarship, but it didn't work out. Still, he encouraged her to go. And for three years, they continued their relationship via WhatsApp and Facebook. She told him she was one of the top students in her class.

Back home, Mark was struggling. He had no money, no parents, no connections in a country with no reliable jobs for young people. His dreams of becoming a lawyer were fading. But word of his girlfriend's success was starting to get around the wider Sierra Leonean community. Guys were sliding into her DMs on socials. And whenever that happened, she would tell Mark and then block them immediately, until someone new approached her.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

The guy was a Sierra Leonean doctor. He had seen one picture of Mark's girlfriend and decided that she would be his wife. Mark says she tried to ignore him, but the man contacted her family and formally asked for her hand. She told Mark they were pressuring her to accept, telling her that a marriage with this man could not only change her future, but her entire family's too.

He watched as the nine years of their relationship unraveled over a short series of tearful WhatsApp calls. Nothing Mark could say, nothing he could do, nothing he could offer her or her family was enough to convince them to choose him over a doctor. A few months later, he says she received the ring via DHL and was married to this stranger.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

The visionary feminist writer bell hooks says love is made up of seven parts. Wherever someone is practicing care, affection, recognition, respect, commitment, trust, and open, honest communication, there is love, even in an economically poor environment like Salone. But talking to Mark, I found myself thinking more about what love needs to survive, what conditions can make the act of loving easier or more difficult to sustain. Mark felt like he couldn't compete because of money. And he was right. Not everyone has equal access to love.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

In the years since I left Salone, I had fantasies about the lives of people back home. Our country had been ravaged by years of war that left a lot of heartache, suffering, and poverty in its wake. But I believe that through all of that, people had each other, that they had this unbreakable bond that was vital to our survival. But Mark was telling me that was wrong.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

If it is, only 10% or 5% have true love. It wasn't just Mark. Almost every guy I talked to in Freetown told me the same thing. It felt like there was this lovelessness among the men in Salone. Every time I raised a question-- and I talked to around 18 or 19 people-- they'd launch into their own stories of heartbreak.

I heard it from the taxi drivers, coconut salesmen, hotel bellhops, random guys on the street-- women too. The guys at Sonics gym said they'd all gone through it and independently landed on the same math. I asked them what percent of people without money in Salone find true love.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

When I ask my friends in America the same question about finding love without money, they say 60% to 80%.

If love was like everything else these guys couldn't afford in Salone, if it really was a luxury, it made sense to me that they thought the best course of action was to look for it abroad.

It was a way to solve two problems at once. They could move to a country where poverty was less rampant and true love was more accessible. But I wondered about it. Where would it lead them? For Mark, it led him to the place most of us turn to for finding love these days, the internet.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Mark got on Facebook. And he started sliding into as many DMs as possible. He didn't care about age or race or religion, just anyone who was over 18 and overseas who might be interested in a relationship.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

In his search for a new relationship, Mark messaged over 150 random people on Facebook.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Some messaged back.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

There was a single mom in Brazil who liked his muscles, the Sierra Leonean student in Sydney who talked to him because he reminded her of home, the nurse in London who thought he was good banter. Whenever he came across married women, he would keep it pushing. But he was hoping to connect with almost anyone overseas.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Listening to Mark, it was like I was watching an episode of 90 Day Fiancé, but seeing the side of the story I'd always wanted to see, the version where the hopes and dreams of the foreign spouse were finally center stage. My friend Mark was eagerly searching for a love that could transform his life. He made a few connections, but most women weren't interested in a long distance relationship with a guy all the way in West Africa. So Mark struck out again and again.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

He found Lottie.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Lottie Rebecca Beasley.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Lottie Rebecca Beasley was a Black woman Mark met through Facebook. And he just loved how regal her name sounded, Lottie Rebecca Beasley. You've got to say all three. She had kind eyes, a warm smile, and she lived in this state that Mark had never heard of.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

But the nine hour time difference wasn't the only obstacle. There was another distance too.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Mark was young, but he's a good listener. Before long, Lottie was telling him all about her life. She'd gone through a lot of heartbreak too. She'd been married three times, had five children. And after one of her husbands had become abusive, she needed to get away. That's how she ended up in Alaska. She made the best of it, started her own business caring for the elderly, and was moving on with her life. She wanted to know about Mark too.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

For Mark, this thing that began as a friendship was starting to grow. He saw a potential for a romantic relationship. But Lottie struggled to see it, even though he felt like she wanted to. The age difference was too much. Mark says most people feel that way.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

I got to say, when Mark first told me about Lottie, I had questions too. Like I wondered, was my friend now a bona fide romance scammer or something? Because it is true that the way that he was looking for love gave him the silhouette of a romance scammer.

Scammers ask people questions about their personal life, send sweet messages. They try to earn trust before stealing your money and disappearing. But what Mark was telling me about his relationship made me believe that this wasn't that. Mark never asked for money. And he was putting in a lot of time with Lottie.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Months passed and Mark and Lottie kept talking, developing a love ethic where they both showed up for each other.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Did you breakfast this morning?

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

And I said, what is breakfast?

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Lottie asked about where Mark stayed. And he told her he shared one room with three other people. And most nights, he would have to stand outside the house to talk to her so he wouldn't disturb his roommates. This is common. Most people in Salone live on roughly $2 a day. Mark had been making a little money playing soccer in some local leagues, but it wasn't enough to get by.

Hearing about how Mark was struggling made Lottie upset. So she decided to start sending him money. $200 covered rent for the entire year at a place all his own. She also paid for his grandma's funeral. It wasn't a huge amount, just what she could spare here and there, but it made her feel happy to help him.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

I can see that. A lot of relationships involve some kind of transaction. Each person brings what they can offer to the mix. With Lottie, it's money, at least partly. And with Mark, it's his time and care. When I think about the contours of their relationship, the fact that they've never met in person and live thousands of miles apart, not to mention the difference in age and experience, it makes me a little uneasy.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

If I'm being real, my worry for Mark isn't just about whether or not he's attracted to Lottie. There's a darker place my mind wanders off to. It's hard not to see their relationship in the context of the exploitation that's happening in West Africa right now. Sexual tourism has been a growing problem in the Gambia, for example.

Older women have been descending on the country and spending their money on sex with young African men. The phenomenon is so rampant that the Gambian government stepped in, demanding foreign visitors stop this practice. But it still continues.

I don't think that's what's happening with Mark and Lottie. But there are enough similarities here to make me question. And if half of me worried that my friend was being taken advantage of, the other half worried for Lottie. Because Mark talked so openly about what he hopes to get out of their relationship.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

I'd been reaching out to Lottie for weeks with no luck to get her side of all of this. Then finally, early one morning, around 3:00 AM.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

She called me back. And we talked for a while. I didn't know what to expect. But Lottie was very open about her life. She told me more about her work caring for the elderly, the grandson who put her up in her own apartment when she got older, and then, of course, we talked about her feelings for Mark.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Lottie can be a little hard to understand sometimes. It's because of a botched intubation she went through years ago. But I have to say, despite that, she doesn't come off as the kind of person who doesn't have agency over her life. At 73, she can clearly hold her own.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

My mother definitely taught me better than to comment on a woman's age. But I will say, in Lottie's profile picture, she has a very youthful energy about her. In our conversation, she confirmed all of what Mark said about their relationship and how intense their connection was from the start.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Lottie said that it had been a while since men her age gave her a chance. It had been more than 10 years since her previous relationship. And with Mark, she felt like she'd found something real. But some of the things she told me about her life were head spinning.

She told me about a violent fight with one of her adult kids and how, in a separate incident in 2002, she was convicted of child abuse and was sentenced to 2 and 1/2 years in prison. It made me worry for Mark a little bit. Like, does he really know this person?

When I told him about what Lottie had said, he told me he wasn't aware of any of that stuff. But he didn't find that alarming. He said, after all the good she's done for him, he's not going to turn his back on her now.

After six months of a long distance relationship and countless marathon phone sessions, Mark got what he was looking for. Lottie agreed to marry him. The initial plan was for her to go to Salone, but her doctors told her the travel would be bad for her health. So, instead, they decided to bring Mark to the States. Here's Mark.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Mark went ahead and applied for a visitor's visa to the US. And Lottie wrote an official letter to the US embassy in Salone inviting him to come. Next up was an interview with a woman at the American embassy. She said to him--

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

The interviewer asked a lot of questions, carefully grilling him about every detail of his plan. Mark was nervous, but he was prepared. He knew Lottie's address by heart. He felt like he'd answered every question right, until the end when the interviewer looked up at him.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

I wasn't surprised that Mark didn't get it. It's always hard for someone like Mark, someone without a job or a house to tie them to their home country, to get a visitor's visa to America. Officials are afraid that people like that, basically poor people, won't have a reason to return.

It's messed up. And I feel for Mark. In an instant, all the physical and emotional labor he'd invested to get to this point was wiped away, erased by a stranger behind a desk. I've known a lot of folks in Salone who've been denied a visa. And Mark responded to his rejection the way they all eventually do, with optimism. Because what other choice is there in a situation like this?

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

After the failed interview at the embassy, Mark and Lottie tried to regroup and come up with a different plan. But her health worsened. Then one day last year, Lottie didn't answer the phone when Mark called. For weeks, he couldn't reach her, until finally, she messaged him on Facebook.

She told him she'd been in the hospital. At one point, her heart stopped. It took them eight minutes to revive her. Once she got out of the hospital, Mark says, she was more isolated than before and her life felt more difficult.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Talking to Mark, I can tell that he's genuinely troubled by what Lottie's been going through. It's also true that since the downturn in her health, his circumstances have gotten worse. He says without the money she was sending, he got evicted.

He doesn't always have money for food. But he insists even though Lottie has stopped supporting him, he still feels responsible for her.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

The way Mark is talking about Lottie here, it reminds me of a business person talking about sunk costs, someone who is reluctant to give up on something they've invested in for a long time. It brings me right back to my initial worry. What does Mark actually feel? And what is he convincing himself he feels?

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

The US population is actually in the millions, but you get the point. When I talked to Lottie, she also seemed to question how to think about the relationship.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

I got the sense that a lot of people in her life have asked her the same thing for years. And, honestly, it was a hard question to answer.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

It didn't make sense. So later, she asked me again.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

Ultimately, I don't think it's my place to decide whether or not two people love each other. That's a call only they get to make, the way everyone else gets to. But I do know both Mark and Lottie have been through plenty of heartbreak. And I know heartbreak is just love without a place to call home.

The fact that two Black people were struggling to find that home on damn near opposite ends of the Earth, both from two vastly different cultures and generations, says a lot about how hard it can be for Black folks to love and be loved in this world. For us, there's a whole host of historical, political, and economic forces that can send our search for partnership down wayward paths. And after years of wandering, Mark and Lottie felt like they'd finally landed on something. But what I want for them is what I want for a lot of us-- ease.

Mark deserves to be in a relationship that's free from people's judgment. Maybe that comes with a partner closer to his age, in Salone or in America. And Lottie deserves a relationship where she doesn't have to worry about whether someone's using her and whether she's loved. What they have now is not simple. It's not easy. But then again, when has love ever been that?

Ira Glass

Saidu Tejan-Thomas Jr. is the host of the podcast Resistance. This story was produced by Alix Spiegel.

["TELL ME IT'S REAL" BY K-CI & JOJO]

Coming up, Tig Notaro, then a love that dare not speak its name. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

Ira Glass

It's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Today's program, So Close and Yet So Far, stories of people who feel so near to each other, and yet are kept apart.

And before we move to Act 2, we heard about one instance of this kind of thing in a story Jake Offenhartz did on the website Gothamist. Basically what happened is, a few days ago, the New York City fire department received this emergency call.

Ira Glass

In the sewers. Five kids, Staten Island. You know, a normal Tuesday night.

Ira Glass

They went through the tunnels. The dispatcher hands over the call to another dispatcher, Marlind Haxhialiu.

Ira Glass

Can we just step back and admire this dispatcher who seems to know every sewer entrance on Staten Island.

Ira Glass

It's like a tunnel where all the pipes are.

Ira Glass

Very quickly, they figure out where the kids are.

Ira Glass

These kids, it's like they went through a trapdoor from regular New York to underground New York. Which is going on all the time, of course, under the city. Sewers and tunnels and water mains. Literally just shouting distance away. And shouting is all it'll take now for them to tap their ruby slippers three times and get home.

Ira Glass

If you listen very closely it sounds like one of the kids actually laughs a little on that last scream, like, it is so weird that an adult is asking them to do this. The kids were rescued pretty quickly. None of them were hurt.

Ira Glass

Which brings us to Act 2 where we have another kind of rescue. Another fire department. Act 2-- Fire Sale.

So comedian Tig Notaro has been on our show many, many times talking about her random encounters with pop star Taylor Dayne or, memorably, she was diagnosed with stage II cancer and went up on stage that night and did a stand up set about it that we played here on the show.

Lately, when she goes on stage, she's been talking a lot about her wife Stephanie and their two kids, Finn and Max, and their home life together. And she has this story of being so close to someone and yet so far from them that she recorded at the Comedy Club Largo in Los Angeles. This happened one night when she and Stephanie went to a film and got home late.

Tig Notaro

She fell asleep immediately. And I was up. I was having some pain in my stomach. And because she fell asleep right away, I thought, well, I'm not going to wake her up. So I was lying there thinking, I'm sure this is nothing. You know, all of my medical issues usually aren't anything. So this is probably another one of those situations. [LAUGHTER]

And three hours pass. And I'm am worse and worse. And I finally tapped her and I said, I am in so much pain right now. And she said, completely groggy, just, do you think it's all the popcorn that you ate tonight? And I said, mm, I don't, I don't.

I've been eating popcorn for almost 50 years now. Not consistently, but this is not popcorn pain. And she said, well, we should probably be safe and just go to the emergency room. And I was like, oh my god, that's so dramatic.

And she said, well, you know, I just-- we shouldn't take any chances. So why don't you get up and get dressed and we'll go? And I said, well, the thing is, I don't know if I can even walk I'm in so much pain. And she said, oh my god, you can't walk? Well, then I'm calling 911. And I was like, oh my god, that's so dramatic. It's going to be the lights and sirens flying down our street.

What if this is nothing? She calls 9-1-1. And this gigantic fireman appears at our bedroom door. I mean, he's huge. And he has rubber boots to here. He has fireman pants on, muscles out to here, suspenders, no shirt.

And I'm lying there in bed. I felt so vulnerable. Because I was in so much pain. And I'm in my nightgown. And-- of course I don't wear a nightgown. You know me better than that. You think I wear a nightgown? I could feel the tension in the room.

Are you like, she wears a nightgown? No, I don't wear a nightgown. I think the last time I wore a nightgown was probably 1977, probably had a little Pooh Bear on the front scooping honey out of a clay pot. Anyway, I was lying in bed totally feeling vulnerable.

And he got down next to me and he said, listen, I understand you're in a lot of pain. And I just want you to know that there's an ambulance outside if you need. And I said, I appreciate it. I just really don't want to waste anybody's time if this is nothing. And he said, it's up to you. It's there.

And I said, I don't know if I can walk. And he said, that is not a problem. And he scooped me up in his arms. And I'm telling you, in that moment, I was just like, whoa-ho, I could get used to this. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

I mean, truly, I was like oh, I get it now. If you think you're surprised, think how I felt in that moment. I have never been more confused. He was holding me and I was just dangling in his arms, with my nightgown flowing.

But let me tell you what really surprised me when I found out this was my type. Here's what I didn't know I was into. He had a mustache. I was like, yes, please. That'll do just fine. That is my type. I didn't know.

Here's the thing is you can fall for and be attracted to anybody. It can happen at any time. And I always thought, OK, if I'm ever into a guy, here's what I thought my type would be. I was like, it's probably going to be a singer-songwriter, probably going to be a poet, probably going to be a painter, have a slight build. We'll share a wardrobe. I did not think that this gigantic fireman was going to be what it was all about for me.

So he's carrying me in his arms. We're going down the hall. And I said, listen, when we pass this door, if you could just be extra quiet because if my kids wake up, come out, and see this, this is going to be confusing on so many different levels. And he was great about it.

You know how he is. He's just, he's the best, classic him. You know, he's just tiptoeing past their bedroom. We go down the stairs. And Stephanie's father lives with us. And he carries me past my father-in-law. And Stephanie opens the door. And we walk past her. And I just turned and was like, goodbye, old life.

We get out to the ambulance. He gently places me on the gurney, kisses me on the forehead, and pushes me into the back there and then shuts the doors. And then wouldn't you know it? I was like, oh God, hey, apparently my roommate is worried about me and wants to join us. Thanks a lot, Stephanie. Total buzzkill.

But as I suspected, it ended up not being anything too serious. I was just bleeding internally. But the couple of weeks later, I was at a party. And I was talking to some people about the fireman. And I was like, this guy was so incredibly hot, just muscles, mustache.

And I was going on and on. Stephanie walks up and overhears this. And she has this look of disgust on her face. And she's like, I'm sorry, but you thought that fireman was hot? I was like, um, yeah. This is not up for discussion.

This is not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of fact. And I don't know if any of you have experienced this or not. But there is nothing more awkward than finding out in a social situation that you and your wife have completely different tastes in men.

Ira Glass

Tig Notaro, she is the host of the podcast Don't Ask Tig. She's appearing at Red Bank, New Jersey in April and other places too. To find out when she's coming to your town, her website is TigNotaro.com.

Ira Glass

Well, our program was produced today by Lilly Sullivan. The people who put together today's show include Elna Baker, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Michal Comite, Aviva DeKornfeld, Valerie Kipnis, Tobin Low, Alaa Mostafa, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Charlotte Sleeper, Ike Sriskandarajah, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Julie Whitaker. Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman. Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum. Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.

Special thanks today to Alden Young, Mariama Mansaray, Vickie Remoe, Sheri Rickson, and Dianne M. Stewart, the author of Black women Black love America's war on African-American marriage. Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 750 episodes for absolutely free. Also, there's lots of other stuff there-- videos, lists of favorite shows.

Again, thisamericanlife.org. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia. You know, he has a new pickup line, uses it every time he's in a bar now.

Saidu Tejan-Thomas

The visionary feminist writer bell hooks says love is made up of seven parts.

Ira Glass

I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.